Comments on: Open Source Communities: How Design Choice with regards to Transparency and Accessibility affects External Participation http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/ “equally critical of proprietary and open source myths, advocating software choice beyond marketing and romanticism” Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:02:08 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Joel West http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-494107 Joel West Sun, 20 Jul 2008 23:52:05 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-494107 Giuseppe, Thank you for your frank comments. I am perhaps one of the few open source researchers that's not a true believer, maybe because I spent too much time in the software industry. But frankly I think it's cool if companies can find success using OSS as demoware, or as a way to get PR, or by providing full IP but not sharing control or development. Parceling out different rights to see what buyers will value is just another form of business model innovation, like Southwest or Wal-Mart or (frankly) MySQL. And such innovation deserves to be rewarded. My <i>only</i> concern is false advertising, e.g. people who claim they're promoting some noble cause but really are just out to make a buck. IT buyers are not stupid, and by now the industry has a fairly sophisticated understanding of OSS. So unlike in the consumer space, I think vendors will be punished for exaggerated claims and are better off just leveling with people. If nothing else, the dot-bomb era taught us that a free lunch doesn't last forever and IT buyers certainly want their vendors to be around to provide support and upgrades down the road. Joel West <a href="http://www.joelwest.org" rel="nofollow">www.joelwest.org</a> Giuseppe,

Thank you for your frank comments. I am perhaps one of the few open source researchers that’s not a true believer, maybe because I spent too much time in the software industry. But frankly I think it’s cool if companies can find success using OSS as demoware, or as a way to get PR, or by providing full IP but not sharing control or development. Parceling out different rights to see what buyers will value is just another form of business model innovation, like Southwest or Wal-Mart or (frankly) MySQL. And such innovation deserves to be rewarded.

My only concern is false advertising, e.g. people who claim they’re promoting some noble cause but really are just out to make a buck. IT buyers are not stupid, and by now the industry has a fairly sophisticated understanding of OSS. So unlike in the consumer space, I think vendors will be punished for exaggerated claims and are better off just leveling with people. If nothing else, the dot-bomb era taught us that a free lunch doesn’t last forever and IT buyers certainly want their vendors to be around to provide support and upgrades down the road.

Joel West
http://www.joelwest.org

]]> By: Roberto Galoppini http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-490773 Roberto Galoppini Fri, 18 Jul 2008 16:42:48 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-490773 Thank you Giuseppe to join the conversation, I think you are really honest about where MySQL stands today. As <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/02/26/openofficeorg-italian-association-meets-its-first-goal-press-release/" rel="nofollow">OpenOffice.org community member</a> I do know how difficult is to cope with corporate production models. Hybridization is a pretty new thing, but I think that it is a process, and I welcome MySQL's first steps. As I observed in another <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/04/open-source-development-about-community-and-sponsored-projects/#comment-490730" rel="nofollow">comment to Joel's ones</a>, I am also looking forward to see what can do communities involving (also) consumers, like SAKAI, or "not organic" ones like those <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/04/18/open-source-business-models-collaborative-software-initiative-just-launched/" rel="nofollow">managed by the Collaborative Software Initiative</a>. Thank you Giuseppe to join the conversation, I think you are really honest about where MySQL stands today. As OpenOffice.org community member I do know how difficult is to cope with corporate production models. Hybridization is a pretty new thing, but I think that it is a process, and I welcome MySQL’s first steps.

As I observed in another comment to Joel’s ones, I am also looking forward to see what can do communities involving (also) consumers, like SAKAI, or “not organic” ones like those managed by the Collaborative Software Initiative.

]]> By: Giuseppe Maxia http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-490497 Giuseppe Maxia Fri, 18 Jul 2008 10:54:32 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-490497 Joel, what you say is true. MySQL, as a company, uses open source as a marketing vehicle. It means that the company seeks to enlarge the user base as much as it can be done, and then looks for potential customers within the extended user community. This is a good model, and one of the reasons why Sun acquired MySQL, i.e. for its ability of cashing on open source. MySQL, as a project, is sadly less open than others. While it can rightfully claim a user base far superior to any other open source database, it has a very limited number of external contributors. The company has structured its development practice around a closed source model, exacerbated by the RCS tool of choice (BitKeeper) which made openness even more difficult. We have been changing, though. Slowly, because development habits are hard to change, but the direction is towards openness. We now have many developers openly talking about the project in public IRC (instead of the internal one, the only one we used until one year ago), we have moved our code base to the more community friendly Bazaar, and this will make contribution easier. We have promoted 14 projects within Google Summer of Code, and the outcome of these projects can be added to our code (depending on quality review, of course). In short, we are on the right path. We acknowledge that, while we have been a good example in matter of cashing on open source, we have a long way to go in matter of public participation. But we are learning. Giuseppe Maxia MySQL Community Team Lead Sun Microsystems - Database Group http://datacharmer.blogspot.com Joel,
what you say is true. MySQL, as a company, uses open source as a marketing vehicle. It means that the company seeks to enlarge the user base as much as it can be done, and then looks for potential customers within the extended user community.
This is a good model, and one of the reasons why Sun acquired MySQL, i.e. for its ability of cashing on open source.
MySQL, as a project, is sadly less open than others. While it can rightfully claim a user base far superior to any other open source database, it has a very limited number of external contributors. The company has structured its development practice around a closed source model, exacerbated by the RCS tool of choice (BitKeeper) which made openness even more difficult. We have been changing, though. Slowly, because development habits are hard to change, but the direction is towards openness. We now have many developers openly talking about the project in public IRC (instead of the internal one, the only one we used until one year ago), we have moved our code base to the more community friendly Bazaar, and this will make contribution easier. We have promoted 14 projects within Google Summer of Code, and the outcome of these projects can be added to our code (depending on quality review, of course).
In short, we are on the right path. We acknowledge that, while we have been a good example in matter of cashing on open source, we have a long way to go in matter of public participation. But we are learning.

Giuseppe Maxia
MySQL Community Team Lead
Sun Microsystems - Database Group
http://datacharmer.blogspot.com

]]> By: Joel West http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-489509 Joel West Thu, 17 Jul 2008 21:07:40 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2008/07/17/open-source-communities-how-design-choice-with-regards-to-transparency-and-accessibility-affects-external-participation/#comment-489509 I think over time this hybrid model will be recognized for what it is. Most OSS users and industry types know that MySQL uses OSS as a marketing vehicle (and a way to get adoption by students and small ISVs), and that's not sharing participation or authority the way that an Apache or Eclipse does. Don't get me wrong: being open on 1 dimension is better than being open on 0 dimensions; let's just not confuse it with being open on all 3 dimensions. I think over time this hybrid model will be recognized for what it is. Most OSS users and industry types know that MySQL uses OSS as a marketing vehicle (and a way to get adoption by students and small ISVs), and that’s not sharing participation or authority the way that an Apache or Eclipse does.

Don’t get me wrong: being open on 1 dimension is better than being open on 0 dimensions; let’s just not confuse it with being open on all 3 dimensions.

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