Comments on: Open Source Business Intelligence: Gartner yawns too http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/ Where Free Software meets Businessequally critical of proprietary and open source myths,advocating software choice beyondmarketing and romanticism Fri, 21 Nov 2008 12:01:48 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Michael http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-42500 Michael Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:56:04 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-42500 Thank you both for your contributions in this post. I have learned quite bit more since following along here. Thank you both for your contributions in this post. I have learned quite bit more since following along here.

]]> By: Roberto Galoppini http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-10916 Roberto Galoppini Mon, 26 Mar 2007 12:19:30 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-10916 Gabriele I was asking about outside contributions to your project, though it is interesting to know you are contributing to others' projects. No SME is worth to interview to talk about the OSS ecology of value yet? Keep in touch. Gabriele I was asking about outside contributions to your project, though it is interesting to know you are contributing to others’ projects.

No SME is worth to interview to talk about the OSS ecology of value yet?

Keep in touch.

]]> By: gabriele http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-10907 gabriele Mon, 26 Mar 2007 11:59:33 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-10907 Just some examples: contributions to eXo Platform, ServiceMix, Jpivot, Cimero and more... because it make no sense don't give back a realization of general interest. But also projects integration (e.g.: SpagoBI and eXo, Talend and more ..): it means sharing projects road-map to achieve a bigger solution of general interest. Just some examples: contributions to eXo Platform, ServiceMix, Jpivot, Cimero and more… because it make no sense don’t give back a realization of general interest. But also projects integration (e.g.: SpagoBI and eXo, Talend and more ..): it means sharing projects road-map to achieve a bigger solution of general interest.

]]> By: Roberto Galoppini http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9729 Roberto Galoppini Fri, 23 Mar 2007 17:02:05 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9729 Gabriele I totally follow your line of thought, let's talk about facts. Two questions and few comments below. Could you approximately tell me if your outside contributions are significant and at which extent? Could you put me in touch with a SME contributing, in order to ask few questions about the OSS ecology of value you mentioned above? Talking about the install-configure-go live (or nightly-build) method I would say that it worked quite well with few OS projects, I am definitely more sympathetic than critical of. You know why? Because when your product it is ready for prime time a vibrant community is already there. If in doubt <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/06/business-development-about-going-100-open-source/" rel="nofollow">ask Alfresco if it is or not an issue</a>. What makes a real difference is <a href="http://opensource.mit.edu/papers/garzarelligaloppini.pdf" rel="nofollow">the modular architecture of software which strongly affects capability coordination</a>. As with code availability, modularity is also just a precondition. What is needed to foster <a href="http://www.linuxworldsummit.it/showPage.php?template=approfondimenti&id=110" rel="nofollow">"lock-in free" services</a> is a strong commitment for community-based peer production. And the community process has no much to do with the software, it is about sharing business opportunities in the long run (see <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/09/community-development-oreilly-joins-mysql-board/" rel="nofollow">MySQL</a> and <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/19/business-development-is-red-hat-exchange-a-real-change/" rel="nofollow">Red Hat</a> approaches). Gabriele I totally follow your line of thought, let’s talk about facts. Two questions and few comments below.

Could you approximately tell me if your outside contributions are significant and at which extent?

Could you put me in touch with a SME contributing, in order to ask few questions about the OSS ecology of value you mentioned above?

Talking about the install-configure-go live (or nightly-build) method I would say that it worked quite well with few OS projects, I am definitely more sympathetic than critical of. You know why? Because when your product it is ready for prime time a vibrant community is already there. If in doubt ask Alfresco if it is or not an issue.

What makes a real difference is the modular architecture of software which strongly affects capability coordination. As with code availability, modularity is also just a precondition. What is needed to foster “lock-in free” services is a strong commitment for community-based peer production. And the community process has no much to do with the software, it is about sharing business opportunities in the long run (see MySQL and Red Hat approaches).

]]> By: gabriele http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9690 gabriele Fri, 23 Mar 2007 15:43:20 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9690 In short, OS (not OSS) is different in "nature" if you think that OS is not only software "OSI approved", but a different approach (process development, contribution, trust, network ..and more else): not general statements, facts. I'm working inside a Consortium (ObjectWeb) collaborating with other projects, individuals, integrators, SMEs. We collaborate also with projects and actors outside OW Consortium as well. Adaptability is non "granted" by source code availability, but code availability foster adaptability. Sorry, words are words and using words we build nothing; software realizations are facts and we daily verify what OS developments makes the difference (non something like: install, configure, go live; A lot of failure with this approach). Obviously, not every time, not everywhere, not in all application domains. It's just my experience and I hope it's not the unique experience in OS domain. I've outlined my approach in Sardinia Convention PAAL 2007 (you can find a my paper in the website - sorry, it's in Italian and tailored just for PAs). In short,
OS (not OSS) is different in “nature” if you think that OS is not only software “OSI approved”, but a different approach (process development, contribution, trust, network ..and more else): not general statements, facts. I’m working inside a Consortium (ObjectWeb) collaborating with other projects, individuals, integrators, SMEs. We collaborate also with projects and actors outside OW Consortium as well. Adaptability is non “granted” by source code availability, but code availability foster adaptability.
Sorry, words are words and using words we build nothing; software realizations are facts and we daily verify what OS developments makes the difference (non something like: install, configure, go live; A lot of failure with this approach). Obviously, not every time, not everywhere, not in all application domains. It’s just my experience and I hope it’s not the unique experience in OS domain. I’ve outlined my approach in Sardinia Convention PAAL 2007 (you can find a my paper in the website - sorry, it’s in Italian and tailored just for PAs).

]]> By: Roberto Galoppini http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9551 Roberto Galoppini Fri, 23 Mar 2007 10:25:56 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9551 Thank you Gabriele to keep conversating. I thought SpagoBI was based on jasper report engine because is reported in the <a href="" rel="nofollow">dependencies' list</a>, as far as I understand you really ned only if you're using some SpagoBI components, am I right? I heard only about SpagoBI used within PA projects, other markets have different needs, please let me know how you cope with that. I don't think OSS is different "in nature". I believe that many OS products are just licensed with OSI approved licenses, and that is proven to not make any real difference for <strong>customers</strong>. Adaptability is a nice to have, but it is definitely not granted by source code availability. Software engineering states that modifying software authored by others costs from 2 to 6 times, and sometimes even 20 times! In this respect OS is a promise, not always fulfilled though. Consultancy it is great for System Integrators and Consulting firms, again one size doesn't fit all. BI is a good application area in this respect indeed. General statements are always too vague, let's talk about <strong>your</strong> approach! Thank you Gabriele to keep conversating. I thought SpagoBI was based on jasper report engine because is reported in the dependencies’ list, as far as I understand you really ned only if you’re using some SpagoBI components, am I right?

I heard only about SpagoBI used within PA projects, other markets have different needs, please let me know how you cope with that.

I don’t think OSS is different “in nature”. I believe that many OS products are just licensed with OSI approved licenses, and that is proven to not make any real difference for customers. Adaptability is a nice to have, but it is definitely not granted by source code availability. Software engineering states that modifying software authored by others costs from 2 to 6 times, and sometimes even 20 times!
In this respect OS is a promise, not always fulfilled though.

Consultancy it is great for System Integrators and Consulting firms, again one size doesn’t fit all. BI is a good application area in this respect indeed.

General statements are always too vague, let’s talk about your approach!

]]> By: gabriele http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9520 gabriele Fri, 23 Mar 2007 09:14:16 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-9520 Roberto, SpagoBI is not based on the Jasper report engine, it's a platform integrating several different analytics tools and engines, with a non-exclusive choice: www.spagobi.org. It's not targeting PAs, it's targeting all market domains and needs; a lot of interest arises from PAs now. In my opinion the strength of OSS is not that it's free (or cheaper, following the dual licensing schema) but that it's more adaptive to the customers' needs. Customers' needs are satisfied by the development of software projects using OSS and so they need a lot of consultancy for all business domains, not only for BI. I hope that for all business domains (not only BI again) the competition is not OSS vs. proprietary; the very OSS is something different from a proprietary solution now and in the future. The challenge is for an effective solution. Sometime I talk about an OSS ecology for value, a value-hypernetwork that I think is suitable also for SMEs. No problem for an interview about business domain, if you like. Roberto, SpagoBI is not based on the Jasper report engine, it’s a platform integrating several different analytics tools and engines, with a non-exclusive choice: www.spagobi.org. It’s not targeting PAs, it’s targeting all market domains and needs; a lot of interest arises from PAs now. In my opinion the strength of OSS is not that it’s free (or cheaper, following the dual licensing schema) but that it’s more adaptive to the customers’ needs. Customers’ needs are satisfied by the development of software projects using OSS and so they need a lot of consultancy for all business domains, not only for BI. I hope that for all business domains (not only BI again) the competition is not OSS vs. proprietary; the very OSS is something different from a proprietary solution now and in the future. The challenge is for an effective solution. Sometime I talk about an OSS ecology for value, a value-hypernetwork that I think is suitable also for SMEs. No problem for an interview about business domain, if you like.

]]> By: Roberto Galoppini http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-8390 Roberto Galoppini Wed, 21 Mar 2007 17:53:24 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-8390 Hi Gabriele, as <a href="http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-6449" rel="nofollow">I already wrote</a> I totally agree with Matt Asay, OS BI players are targeting other customers, offering something else. As far as I understand SpagoBI, <a href="http://jasperforge.org/sf/projects/jasperreports" rel="nofollow">based on the Jasper report engine</a>, is targeted to Public Administrations, am I right? About double-licensing I believe it makes sense, sometimes, but I doubt it fits any needs. By the way BI requires a lot of consultancy, I don't think you need any extra "lock-in" measure, right? I would like to know more about your product and your business model, let me know if you are available for an interview any soon. It might take time to get OS BI similar to proprietary BI, but I am not sure SMEs need them. Disruptive innovation never need perfect clones, after all. Hi Gabriele, as I already wrote I totally agree with Matt Asay, OS BI players are targeting other customers, offering something else. As far as I understand SpagoBI, based on the Jasper report engine, is targeted to Public Administrations, am I right?
About double-licensing I believe it makes sense, sometimes, but I doubt it fits any needs. By the way BI requires a lot of consultancy, I don’t think you need any extra “lock-in” measure, right?
I would like to know more about your product and your business model, let me know if you are available for an interview any soon.

It might take time to get OS BI similar to proprietary BI, but I am not sure SMEs need them. Disruptive innovation never need perfect clones, after all.

]]> By: gabriele http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-7897 gabriele Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:54:45 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-7897 Do you think that OS BI is becoming similar to proprietary one? Probably some solutions do, following an OS product approach (dual licensing schema, pre-defined engines stack, ...). I know something different: SpagoBI www.spagobi.org, following a different approach. It's an integration platform focused on project results (e.g.: customer needs). The OS approach and business model is very important in BI domain. Innovation? Probably, in the near future. Effectiveness? Probably, now it's the time. Do you think that OS BI is becoming similar to proprietary one? Probably some solutions do, following an OS product approach (dual licensing schema, pre-defined engines stack, …). I know something different: SpagoBI www.spagobi.org, following a different approach. It’s an integration platform focused on project results (e.g.: customer needs). The OS approach and business model is very important in BI domain. Innovation? Probably, in the near future. Effectiveness? Probably, now it’s the time.

]]> By: Roberto Galoppini http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-6449 Roberto Galoppini Sat, 17 Mar 2007 18:31:36 +0000 http://robertogaloppini.net/2007/03/14/open-source-business-intelligence-gartner-yawns-too/#comment-6449 Hi Michael, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2007/03/gartner_yawns_o.html" rel="nofollow">I agree with Matt Asay saying</a> open source BI players are transforming BI into something else. It might take time to get OS BI similar to proprietary BI, but I am not sure SMEs need them. Disruptive innovation never need perfect clones, after all. Hi Michael, I agree with Matt Asay saying open source BI players are transforming BI into something else. It might take time to get OS BI similar to proprietary BI, but I am not sure SMEs need them. Disruptive innovation never need perfect clones, after all.

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